Huile moteur pour mon V6 3,6 de 2009

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Dudu_38
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Re: Huile moteur pour mon V6 3,6 de 2009

Message par Dudu_38 »

Indiana a écrit :
Dudu_38 a écrit :Nos V8 sont pas connu pour être pointu
J'aurais plutôt dit rustique. Pas grand chose de très technologique dans nos moteurs qui sont plutôt d'une conception ancienne (mais éprouvée).
Oui oui c'est ce que je dis ;)
Indiana a écrit :
Dudu_38 a écrit :mais déjà les BVA tournent sur 4 cylindres à vitesse régulée ce qui implique des températures de cylindre nettement différente en même temps dans le moteur. Du coup l'huile doit elle faire le yoyo entre les deux...
Attention, ce nest pas les pistons qui arrêtent de bouger hein, c'est juste les injecteurs qui restent fermés. Donc pour le moteur aucun changement dans l'équilibre de charge, les mouvements d'huile, etc. Ou alors "on m'aurait menti ? "
D'accord encore une fois mais pas d'injection = pas de de combustion du coup des écarts de température entre les pistons qui fera que l'huile va être mise à contribution car pour une même température moyenne de l'huile elle devra malgré tout travailler et lubrifier dès pistons avec des températures propres nettement différentes.

Ps : cettes soultuion offfre en plus une usure homogène des bougies.
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Indiana
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Re: Huile moteur pour mon V6 3,6 de 2009

Message par Indiana »

Ah oui écart de température possible quoi que vu comme ça chauffe rien que sous le capot, au niveau de l'intérieur du bloc je ne suis pas sûr que la chaleur ne se diffuse pas un peu partout "quasi" uniformément... Après je ne suis pas motoriste non plus, j'en sais rien ! :grin:

D'ailleurs les injecteurs n'injectent plus, je me demande ce que font les soupapes... Admission restent fermées et échappement s'ouvrent quand même ou tout reste fermé ? ...
6.2l... Non, pas aux 100Km !
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Re: Huile moteur pour mon V6 3,6 de 2009

Message par Dudu_38 »

Je sais plus y'avait un bel article fut un temps. Je me souviens juste que c'était pensé pour uniformiser l'usure et que ça tourne rond.
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Re: Huile moteur pour mon V6 3,6 de 2009

Message par Dudu_38 »

Je connais pas la source mais ça donne une idée des l'ordre de grandeur des écarts de température entre les cylindres.
http://www4.ac-nancy-metz.fr/autocompet ... diesel.doc
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Re: Huile moteur pour mon V6 3,6 de 2009

Message par Wolf »

changer votre huile très régulièrement et alors peu d'importance du type d'huile (compatible) que vous mettrez dans votre V8 de conception archaïque (point positif).
ajouter une vidange de plus entre chaque vidange recommandée par le constructeur est certainement ce qui sera le plus bénéfique pour la longévité du moteur.

https://blog.modbargains.com/15000-mile ... ange-myth/

NB: s'il fallait croire tout ce qu'un constructeur dit ... :rolleyes:
cf histoire des diesels ne polluant pas trop...


Voir ci dessous quelques huiles qui se vendent aux USA pour la camaro 5

https://www.carid.com/2012-chevy-camaro ... ubricants/
oil.jpg
"dexos 2" n'est pas un type d'huile mais un certificat donné par GM pour une huile, il me semble que les fabricants d'huile doivent acheter ce certificat auprès de GM et certains choisissent de ne pas le faire...
Royal Purpose n'a pas ce certificat dexos 2 sur ces huiles et pourtant bon nombres de muscle cars et autres gros V8 aux USA ont cela à l'intérieur pour lubrifier les pièces en mouvement. :popcorn:
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Re: Huile moteur pour mon V6 3,6 de 2009

Message par Wolf »

correction:

maintenant Royal Purpose a (acheté ?) la certification

https://picclick.com/Royal-Purple-5w30- ... 53080.html
Pièces jointes
RP.jpg
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Re: Huile moteur pour mon V6 3,6 de 2009

Message par Wolf »

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-perf ... ils-2.html

5W30 Motul 300V Ester Core 4T Racing Oil, synthetic = 112,464 psi.

This Motorcycle Road Racing oil is from France and comes in liter bottles (slightly more than a quart). At the time this oil was tested in spring 2014, it cost $24.25 per bottle. And with the shipping cost added to that, the final cost was about $33.00 per bottle (shipping was all inside the U.S.), making it THE most expensive motor oil I’ve ever tested. This oil is in the INCREDIBLE wear protection category and is ranked Number 1, for oils just as they come, right out of the bottle, with no aftermarket additives.

You could say you at least get the best possible wear protection available, for that super high price. This is an extremely impressive motor oil just as it comes, right out of the bottle. No aftermarket additives should be used with this oil, because that would only reduce its capability overall.

zinc = 1724 ppm phosphorus = 1547 ppm moly = 481 ppm calcium = 3141 ppm TBN = 7.4

This oil contains sufficient amounts of the components required (detergent, acid neutralizer, etc) for normal change intervals in street driven vehicles. But, it has way too much zinc/phos for use in cat equipped vehicles. However, it is well suited for Race Cars, Street Hotrods and Classic cars.
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Re: Huile moteur pour mon V6 3,6 de 2009

Message par Wolf »

Lisez la 1ere page

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-perf ... -oils.html

NB: ne pas croire tout ce qu'on lit mais quand on regroupe les différentes sources d'infos on arrive mieux à se faire une idée sur la question, ensuite plus qu'à faire ses choix/expériences.
Engineering Test Data on "High Mileage" Motor Oils
I've received numerous requests to continue posting my factual motor oil test data, in spite of the false negative comments made be a few critics. My Motor Oil Engineering Test Data is breakthrough information that can't be found anywhere else, which finally allows us to directly compare the wear protection capability of various motor oils. Engineering Test Data drives the world, yet there are some people who just can't understand the value of this Engineering Test Data. So, they try to tear it down with the emotion that is often found in discussions of Religion or Politics. But, by them rejecting meaningful motor oil information, they are only hurting themselves.

In fact, it is quite clear that most of the time, they don't even bother to read the information I provide. They just make negative comments right off the top, completely unaware of the information provided. Unfortunately for them, that is their loss, because they will have to continue selecting their oil based on the incorrect thinking that zinc level is all they need to know. And in doing so, they will more often than not, end up with far less wear protection than they think they have, which often results in wiped flat tappet lobes. Some people are their own worst enemies. However, for technically savvy folks who do grasp the value of my motor oil film strength/load carrying capability test data, the latest new information is included below.

But, before we get into motor oil tech, let’s briefly touch on a little background info. In addition to being a lifelong Gear Head, Mechanic, Hotrodder, Drag Racer, and Engine Builder, I’m also a working Professional Degreed Mechanical Engineer, as well as a U.S. Patent holder. Mechanical Design Engineering is what I do for a living. A Mechanical Engineer is clearly the most qualified Engineer to test motor oil that was formulated by Chemical Engineers, for wear protection capability between mechanical components under load.

It should also be noted, that I do not sell motor oil, nor do I work for any Motor Oil Company. I have no vested interest in what motor oil people choose to buy. I simply share my Motor Oil Engineering Test Data as a courtesy to other interested parties, so they too can benefit from the knowledge that was never available until now. People can embrace my data and make good use of it, or they can ignore it and continue to make uninformed motor oil choices.

The independent and unbiased Engineering testing I perform at a REPRESENTATIVE OPERATIONAL TEMPERATURE, to establish motor oil wear protection capability, is a dynamic friction test under load, similar to how an engine dyno test is a dynamic HP/Torque test under load. Both tests show how their subjects truly perform in the real world, no matter what brand names are involved, no matter what outrageous claims may have been made, and no matter what their spec sheets may say.

I always check and adjust if needed, the calibration of my test equipment each time I test a different oil, to keep the results accurate. I also perform multiple tests on each oil, then average those values to arrive at the most accurate and representative value that I post for comparison. The results, good or bad, simply are what they are, and are determined by the complete chemical makeup of each oil tested, which is just what your engine sees after you pour it in.

My Motor Oil Wear Protection Ranking List of over 150 different oils, is "proven" by the Physics and Chemistry involved, and it EXACTLY matches real world Track experience, real world flat tappet break-in experience, and real world High Performance Street experience (test data validation doesn’t get any better than this). You can see the details on all that, by going to the Oil Test Data Blog link below.

It is not a matter of agreeing with my data or not agreeing with it, because the data used to create my Wear Protection Ranking List is NOT my opinion, and it is NOT my theory. The data, as mentioned above, is the result of the Physics and Chemistry involved in the testing. I am only the messenger. The Science is what tells us how these oils perform. And no sensible person would try to argue against Physics and Chemistry. Science is absolute whether people like it or not, and emotion cannot change it.

The fact is, motor oil wear protection capability is determined by the base oil and its additive package "as a whole", with the emphasis on the synergistic effects of the base oil and entire additive package, which is what contains the extreme pressure anti-wear components, and NOT merely by how much zinc is present. The use of zinc as the primary extreme pressure anti-wear component is outdated technology. Modern extreme pressure anti-wear components are equal to or better than zinc, which is why many modern low zinc oils outperform many traditional high zinc oils. Engineering tests have proven over and over again, that it is completely worthless to simply look at the zinc level of a particular motor oil to try to determine how well it provides wear protection.

So, think long and hard before believing anything the naysayers say when they try to discredit my Motor Oil Engineering Test Data. There are always some who try, but fail in their attempt. They are not actually arguing with me, even if they think they are. They are actually arguing against the Science of Physics and Chemistry. Who do you think will win that battle? And ask them how they figure they know more than what the Science of Physics and Chemistry proves. Ask them what their qualifications are. Ask them what testing they have ever done.

They are typically high zinc lovers who just can’t accept the fact that what they’ve always believed about the need for high zinc oils, is only an Old Wives Tale MYTH. So, they get upset and go out of their way trying to undermine anything that goes against what they have been brainwashed to believe about high zinc oils. But, emotion does not determine the Engineering results of how good any particular oil is. As mentioned above, and it bears repeating, factual Engineering tests have proven over and over again that zinc levels alone DO NOT determine an oil’s wear protection capability.

These naysayers cannot factually back-up anything they say. They think they are motor oil experts simply because they have done a bunch of Internet reading. They will sometimes make a big deal about what is in the base oil. They will sometimes provide links to lame Internet articles, which are often just a lab test of a single individual zinc component, showing what it did in that particular lab test. But, that is not any actual motor oil that you buy and pour into your engine. It may be somewhat interesting to read, but that type of test does not does not take into account the countless formula variations and synergistic effects found in the actual motor oils that are available on the market. Therefore, you are only looking at a single data point of a test that is not even what will end up in your engine. Or in other words, worthless information that many zinc lovers falsely believe, is the last word on motor oil. That is NOT how Engineering works. And lot of their lame Internet articles are nothing more than one author copying from the same worthless source material as other authors.

And if that isn't bad enough, some information they throw out there as Gospel is only advertising hype from a motor oil's bottle or website. Of course it is no secret that Motor Oil Companies are among the worst for false advertising. The absolute worst motor oils on the market, and the absolute best motor oils on the market, make the same claims about how wonderful they are. So, the claims made on motor oil bottles and websites would only be taken as truthful, by gullible people who are not Technically savvy.

These zinc lover critics may mean well, but they really DO NOT know what they are talking about. Motor Oil Companies will say absolutely anything to sell their products. When it comes to motor oil, there is no such thing as truth in advertising. And that is why you never see any advertising data from a given Motor Oil Company about how its modern low zinc oils compare to its traditional high zinc oils. That is because it is simply not true that all high zinc oils are better than all low zinc oils. The truth is, some high zinc oils are quite good, while other high zinc oils are quite poor. And you cannot tell the difference by looking only their zinc quantities.

Then these naysayers will also sometimes use the oil recommendations from Cam Companies as support for their position on what oil to use. Problem is, just because Cam Companies sell cams, does not mean they know the first thing about motor oil. They are simply staffed by people who are also brainwashed to believe that any high zinc oil will provide all the wear protection necessary for flat tappet cams. But, the proof that they are clueless about motor oil, is the fact that even the leading Cam Companies still have flat tappet lobes getting wiped, when people use the oils they recommend. And those oils are typically the oils that have tested very poorly in my Motor Oil Engineering Wear Protection Testing. On top of that, Cam Companies often do not even employ Degreed Mechanical Engineers. So, it comes as no surprise that they supply bad information as to what oils to use.

The people who recommend poor performing motor oils, believe if they haven’t lost a lobe while using a certain oil, that it must be great oil. But, they just don’t know, what they don’t know. That only means the oil they used provided “enough” protection for the particular application that didn’t fail. But, that does not tell them anything about how much extra protection they had beyond that. So, their “opinion” of that oil is not a good technical evaluation of its capability. That would be like them telling you that an engine making 750 HP, is good as long as it has rods in it that can withstand 751 HP. Yeah, it might not throw a rod, or maybe it will. But, no technically savvy person would want to run a margin of safety that close.

It’s the same idea with the oil you choose to run. Don’t run an oil with a margin of safety that close. My Motor Oil Engineering Test Data, allows us see how different oils truly compare to each other, so we can run a substantial margin of safety to provide the best possible wear protection for our engines. You have to spend money buying oil anyway, so why not buy excellent oil while you are at it? So, before you consider following the bad advice others give about the oil they only “think” is good, read the real world facts about motor oil, at the link provided at the end of this posting, then decide for yourself who is providing factual motor oil information that you can actually use to your advantage.

The whole idea of simply needing a high zinc level for sufficient wear protection, is only an old wives tale myth that has been busted. Modern extreme pressure anti-wear additives are equal to or better than zinc. Relying only on zinc as the primary anti-wear component, is outdated technology. Wiped flat tappet lobes continue to happen over and over again, when people use high zinc oils that produce poor results in my testing. It’s time to take notice of that.

People who want the facts about which motor oils are good and which are not so good, want to see unbiased and independent test data. And that is exactly what my motor oil film strength/load carrying capability data provides. I back-up everything I say with that hard Engineering test data that exactly matches real world experience. It matches real world experience because my test data is the real deal, which accurately predicts what we can expect from the oils we buy. I test the actual motor oils that we buy and pour into our engines. So, my test data comes entirely from real "on-the-market" motor oils, which is what truly matters.

To provide your engine with the best possible wear protection, as well as to prevent wiped flat tappet wiped lobes, I recommend that you select a highly ranked oil (I’d suggest an oil with over 90,000 psi capability for High Performance Street/Strip flat tappet engines) from my Wear Protection Ranking List, no matter how much zinc it has. That same oil, assuming it is not a short term only Racing Oil, can be used for both break-in and after break-in. Also, DO NOT use any aftermarket additives at all, use the oil just as it comes right out of the bottle.

Using special break-in procedures is only a crutch for poor performing high zinc oils. And if you select a highly ranked oil from my wear protection ranking list, no matter how much zinc it has, with no aftermarket additives, you won’t even have to perform any special break-in procedures. Using an oil with a highly ranked film strength/load carrying capability is that good. I have not had one person who has followed that recommendation, ever report a wiped lobe again. If you make a wise motor oil choice based on the data from my motor oil dynamic friction testing under load, rather than the old myth of any high zinc oil is good enough, the engine you save may be your own.

My Test Data Blog now has over 95,000 views worldwide. Of course simply listing the number of views by itself, is not intended to indicate validation of the test data (validation is shown throughout the Blog). But, indicating the number of views does show that an enormous number of people worldwide recognize the value, understand the importance, and make use of the motor oil test data FACTS included there, that cannot be found anywhere else. And as a result, they are posting and sharing links to my Blog, all over the world. See for yourself at the link provided below.


*****

Now, on with Test Data on High Mileage Motor Oils.

High Mileage motor oils are formulated for older engines with over 75,000 miles on them. And High Mileage oils include “Seal Swell” chemicals to help reduce oil leakage in those older engines.

Below is how 5 different High Mileage oils ranked just among themselves, regarding wear protection capability, after they were tested.

The Wear protection reference categories are:

• Over 105,000 psi = INCREDIBLE wear protection

• 90,000 to 105,000 psi = OUTSTANDING wear protection

• 75,000 to 90,000 psi = GOOD wear protection

• 60,000 to 75,000 psi = MODEST wear protection

• Below 60,000 psi = UNDESIRABLE wear protection


1. 5W30 Valvoline MaxLife High Mileage, API SN, synthetic blend = 108,045 psi

2. 5W30 Pennzoil High Mileage Vehicle, API SN, conventional = 102,402 psi

3. 5W30 Castrol GTX High Mileage, API SN, synthetic blend = 91,404 psi

4. 10W30 Quaker State Defy High Mileage, API SL semi-synthetic = 90,226 psi

5. 5W30 Mobil 1 High Mileage, API SL, synthetic = 88,081 psi

As you can see, these oils all performed very well, even though the top 3 are modern low zinc API SN oils. And that is even more proof that oils do NOT need high zinc levels to provide excellent wear protection.

To see how these oils rank in my overall Wear Protection Ranking List of over 150 different oils, as well as a wealth of motor oil tech FACTS, go to this link:

http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/

540 RAT

Mechanical Engineer

U.S. Patent Holder

Member SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers)

Member ASME (American Society of Mechanical Engineers)

Lifelong Gear Head, Mechanic, Hotrodder, Drag Racer, and Engine Builder.
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Indiana
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Re: Huile moteur pour mon V6 3,6 de 2009

Message par Indiana »

GM Dexos 2
The GM Dexos 2 specification is meant to be the replacement for both GM-LL-A-025 (gasoline).
This specification is built on the ACEA C3 standard but also contains elements from the ILSAC GF-4 deposit formation test and low-temperature sludge build-up test.

http://www.centerforqa.com/dexos-about/

http://standards.globalspec.com/std/1188914/gmw16095

La spec complète coûte 66 $ ... Je ne sais pas combien coûte la licence.

Avec tout ça, j'espère que FxdeStGo va savoir quoi mettre dans son moteur !
6.2l... Non, pas aux 100Km !
2012 Camaro noire BVA TO
2010 Ford F-150 XLT Extended Cab
1980 Westfield SE 1600
2022 E-Odin 2.0 (moto électrique)
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Re: Huile moteur pour mon V6 3,6 de 2009

Message par Wolf »

Avec tout ça, j'espère que FxdeStGo va savoir quoi mettre dans son moteur !
pas faux du tout !

on a pas répondu facilement à sa première question :
Je dois faire un petit appoint et je ne sais pas où trouver facilement dans le commerce de l'huile moteur pour mon V6 de 2009 répondant aux spécificités constructeur
Pour résumer

en cas d'urgence : on peut dire n'importe quelle huile essence sufira

et pour du long terme avec un côté psychologique rassurant : une huile avec la mention "dexos 2"


Après pour le débat de quelle huile mettre dans une camaro -> c'est plus compliqué les avis :rolleyes:
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